VSTi Do Not Recall Patches

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VSTi Do Not Recall Patches
  • Hi Ohmguys,

    I'm sure you're aware of this, but my project seems to initialize all VSTi patches upon closing and relaunching, i.e. Omnisphere opens with its default sawtooth waveform patch, and Kontakt can't seem to find its patches/samples. Effects seem to have total recall, though...

    Also, it would be nice to be able to tell an audio track from a MIDI track, from a VSTi track. Maybe it's just because I'm a Cubase-head and I'm used to graphical cues, but I spend a lot of time guessing which track is which in Ohm.

    Oh, and I assume that bypass for VST effects is coming. I notice it's only there for Ohm effects.

    I forgot to say: this is on a Mac Pro 3,1, 8 GB RAM, OS X 10.6.8.
  • This is due to variations in the design of some vst that we can't control. Keep in mind vst standard (or any other) hasn't been designed with real-time multi user collaboration in mind. This ended up in nasty issues which force us to implement the "sync" button you see on the top of every plugin UI. Each time you want to "apply" your patch to the project, hit that button. Note that a lot of plugins work fine straight out of the box, but a lot doesn't.

    We know a lot of users don't get that from scratch and we'll try to improve educating users on that very specific issue.

  • Regarding the sync button issue. I feel the need of a global sync button is even more prominent since it's kind of easy to sometime forget pressing the plugin sync button, and even unnecessary if there's a global sync button that forces every patch that is different from the one on the server to get sync. OS shouldn't need to send every patch in the project since I guess (and hope) you do some MD5 hash comparison between the local project and server project (or something like that) before sending the patches and samples up to the cloud. Or?

    Maybe I've missed something but at least i tried. :-)
  • Hi masarin

    Ohm Studio does some comparaison before it actually statrs uploading data, which works well with samples but no so well with plugins as it is apparently common (according to our developer) for VST plugins to change their internal state over time even if the user doesn't change anything.
    Also a global sync button could be "dangerous" when collaborating with people that have the same plugin but with slightly different version as one user could overwrite the plugin's patch involuntarily. So while a global sync would work with many plugins, it would cause problems with many others. This synchronization button is really annoying but it is the only solution that "worked":

    • there are cases where Ohm Studio can tell for sure that the user changed the plugin's patch, in which case the sync is automatic 
    • there are times where only the user know if Ohm Studio didn't "sync" even though it should have

    We contacted several developpers to understand how their plugins communicate with the host. We created "fake" VST plugins to see how popular VST host program react to different messages.
    We spent several weeks trying a several different strategies for Ohm Studio and 50 of the most popular VSTs, but not of these strategies worked well because of these 3 reasons:


    1. The way Ohm Studio manages real-time collaboration.
    2. The VST 2 specification was not created with real-time collaboration in mind.
    3. Different VST Plugins can have different and sometimes unpredictable behaviors.

    Not saying it is impossible but the problem was too complex and we had to give up. Actually we even "hard coded" unique strategies for some of the most popular plugins so that you don't have to hit the sync button while using them.

    Thanks
  • Ok. Sounds complex. Thanks for a thorough answer. Much appreciated. :-)
  • Hello,

    Thanks for the explanation, Orange.  Maybe there could be a 'sync all' button which would simply sync all the plugs / vsti in the project in one go instead of having to press them individually.  Of course it might take a while on larger projects but doing this once before exiting would save a lot of 'oh sh&*' moments.  :-)

    Also how about a (togglable) popup before exiting like "DID YOU SYNC ALL YOUR PLUGS MMM??!?!'  would be another good save my ass feature :-)

    thanks,

    ten
  • Hi tenikis

    I understand your point. It can be really frustrating to lose some of your work because of that. As I explained here a global sync didn't work well.
    The manual sync was the best solution we could find at the time.
    There are several other solution which might partly solve the problem:
    • an "extension" to the VST standard that 3rd party developers could implement so that their Plugin tells Ohm Studio when to do the "sync" (something like this for example http://www.reaper.fm/sdk/vst/vst_ext.php )

    • solo projects: a type of project that would not let you invite anyone, therefore a "global sync" shouldn't cause any trouble.

    • VST3: the latest version of the VST could maybe solve the issue. But many of the most popular VST plugins are not available as VST3 yet.


    Thanks